Steve Dewey, co-author with John Ries of In Alien Heat, and Kevin Goodman, author of Cradle of Contact, are considered experts on the Warminster events in the 1960s and 1970s. We spent a couple of pleasant hours on top of a warm and sunny Cradle Hill talking about Warminster, 'The Thing' and UFOs in general. This is the first part of the interview in which Steve and Kevin talk about Warminster.

Weird Wiltshire: How did you get involved with UFO's and Warminster?

Steve Dewey: For me I lived here. I was thirteen when I read Shuttlewoods' books. We didn't realise there was anything happening here. In the 1960's it was a big thing, in the 70's it had gone quiet. When we were fourteen we wandered up here and that's how it started. For around four years before I became a student, we would walk about once a week around the hills. There were very few people who spent more nights looking at the sky than my friends and I in the 70's.

Kevin Goodman: I mirror Steve to a degree, I was thirteen or fourteen and came across the re-print of the Warminster Mystery. This was the first time I had come across something happening in this country. To find somewhere in moderate distance of where I lived was fantastic. I wrote a letter to Arthur Shuttlewood in 1976 asking where I could stay in the town. I stayed at the Foundation Centre, Star House and the rest is history.

WW: What kept bringing you back to the hill?

KG: A lot of it was the social side. You were up here with like-minded individuals to start with and it was always to want to see that elusive genuine UFO. Being up here you do very quickly cut your teeth and you do know how to differentiate between a satellite, a meteor, aircraft or something you cannot explain. As Steve will tell you there are two sightings that I cannot explain rationally.

SD: For me, as I say it was a nice walk around the hills and we were of that mind that was interested in all that stuff and if you are going to go for a walk, this was the best place. What Kev said about the social thing was true as well. As a group it was an interesting thing to do on a Saturday night. We could come up here and light a bonfire. When you're eighteen or nineteen what better thing to do than sit up here by a fire and watch the stars. It was a lovely thing to do.

KG: You were amongst like-minded individuals and you didn't feel an outsider. You could talk about weird concepts and people wouldn't snigger at you. They would listen to you and have their own opinions. Which was great. I think we live in a more enlightened society now, but in the 70's you were almost like social outcasts.

WW: What's the most interesting thing you have seen up here?

SD: Nothing.

KG: There were four red lights coming across the sky all equally distanced apart. They flashed for about five minutes and then shot some beams of light down on what we assumed was the ground over the army camp. Then the extreme left hand one, which was the lead object, shot off at speed and about a minute later the other three shot straight up.

WW: How would you sum up the events in the 70's?

SD In the 70's people were still interested in Warminster. There were still people coming who knew about Warminster, but nothing like the same frequency or numbers in the 60's. When we used to walk around the hills we could find as many as twenty to thirty people here.

KG: It was a chance to get hands on into UFO's. It's fine reading books, it's fine re-reading stuff that has been re-hashed over and over, but to actually come to somewhere where there were reported UFO sightings, at a density I think that has never really been repeated, it was the place to be in the 70's. You had that second generation of researches/believers.

SD: When the Warminster books were re-printed in 1973 we avidly read them.

KG: When I came down in 1976 I only knew that Shuttlewood had written the Warminster Mystery, it was only when I went to Star House that I was told he had written three books with a fourth due out in November. So I was overdosing on them from day one, almost playing catch-up.

WW: Going back to the 60's there was a series of events before the town was besieged. At that time there were no sightings, just noises, then the sightings began. What do you think about these events?

SD: If you read the Warminster Mystery closely people started hearing noises from December 1964. In May 1965, before Shuttlewood was known about, he had lights reported to him. The problem for anyone researching this is that what happens in his book and the journals are two different things. If you go back and read the journal it is nowhere as near as exciting as the book. So there are reports of lights in the sky before the big event. We'll come to the big event in a minute.

KG: The way I look at Warminster now is different to the way I looked at it thirty years ago. I do thank Steve for this to a certain extent. I think it was a social cultural phenomenon as well in as such there was a certain amount of mass hysteria, which the press had a lot to do with, especially when the big event happened. There is a story that there was a public meeting on the August Bank Holiday in 1965 and it's the only time the pubs ran dry in Warminster! Someone asked how many of you have seen 'The Thing?' and in the packed hall about four people put their hands up. It makes you question if this was being reported out of proportion. But I will maintain to my dying day that something happened in this town, but what is it I don't know and I don't think we ever will now.

SD: So, the big event is next. We are talking about Faulkner's photograph. It was published in the Daily Mirror in September 1965. I think if I'm not wrong Shuttlewood had already sent stories to the papers but there was no photograph. It was the photograph that made a big difference. That was when large numbers of people wanted to come to Warminster.

KG: I was heavily into photography in my youth and I was of the opinion that the Faulkner photograph possibly could be genuine, as you can see every individual grain on the film emulsion because it had been blown up. The description given of the taking of the picture, was A silvery fast moving object in the sky. I just pointed my camera and as it entered the viewfinder I took the photo'.

It is one of the iconic UFO photographs.

SD: I would agree, what struck me is that if it was a fake why was it a tiny little dot in the corner that they would then have to blown up? This is the only photograph I know of where it's an appalling photograph and only looks good when you blow it up. So for a long time I was convinced on that basis.

KG: And it looked three-dimensional. A lot of fake photographs are stuck on silhouettes. But as Steve will tell you the debate on the validity of the photo has been put to bed.

SD: The trouble with hoaxes is that until the hoaxer comes out and says 'I did it' there will always be arguments. I can tell you what I have heard but people who really want to believe will believe. All you can do is search around for witnesses who may have a different version of the story. That is what I found. There are two stories about the photograph and mine is one of them. My version is that I knew someone who knew Faulkner. He had lived with him for some time and during a conversation one night Faulkner confessed he hoaxed the photograph. A lot of people came here to hoax; he wouldn't have been the first. Hoaxing is an important part of the phenomenon. The photo is a hoax because of what I know, but my book goes into more detail. Faulkner still maintains that it is genuine.

WW: Why did you create the UFO Warminster website?

KG: Initially it was created as there was nothing on the web that was solely dedicated to the Warminster phenomenon. There are other sites that mention it, but nothing that specifically caters for it. Steve and I thought why not set one up.

SD: There are people out there who know more than us but we can't find them, but because of our research we know an awful lot about the subject.

WW: The sites mission is to be the repository for events that occurred in Warminster?

SD: My aim is that there is no opinion on the site. My intention is that you can find what you want and make your own mind up.

KG; The main thing is to keep the awareness of this phenomenon alive.

WW: What can we expect next from the site?

SD: As we get more information we will put it on the web. So you know where to go to find out about Warminster.

KG: It will be a library. Next big thing is to put UFO INFO magazine on-line and clippings from original newspapers.

WW: Could you say a few words about your books?

KG: It's a rite of passage book, cutting your UFO teeth in the 1970's. Although Warminster was popular then it was poorly documented. It's my experiences of my time in the town.

SD: Mine is an investigation from the 60's to the 70's. It tries to set the events in a cultural context. Warminster was a new sighting but it had its own specific context. We are a small rural Wiltshire town who hosted one of the biggest UFO events in the UK.

That concludes the first part of the interview. You can read more about Warminster and The Thing at www.ufo-warminster.co.uk .

Watch out for the second part of this interview!